Reply to this topicStart new topic
> The Digital Devil on your shoulder., Ever broken the rules in the name of art?
   priteeboy
post Nov 27 2010, 05:39 AM
Post #1



Group Icon


ETPcrew
Group: ś Senior Artist
Posts: 712
Joined: 21-October 08
From: Sydney, Australia
Member No.: 599


This could be a controversial topic, so no dobbings of flamings OK? evilplanner.png

But I wondered, has anyone ever did something taboo or maybe even illegal in order to produce their art? Ever used a found photo from Google whom you didn't know belonged to in an artwork, even if it was just a small, not-recognizable part of a larger image (maybe you needed a single person from a crowd, maybe you needed a cloud or flock of birds from a sky etc) I can imagine many would have done that at least once, especially during beginner days where we still didn't know much about the ethics of digital art. Ever sold prints of it if so? I admit a few my older works (2006 and 2007) have some Google-image elements in them. I'm pretty sure none are available as prints though mellow.gif

And what about programs? This is what made me think about this topic actually. Someone today was telling me I should upgrade from Vue 7 to Vue 9, I said I couldn't afford that, they said to just download a torrent dry.gif I try to avoid Torrents if I can, but I must admit my copy of Cinema4D is...a friend a few years ago gave me a copy of his which I think was Torrented. This doesn't bother me as much since it's my least-used program (at least my Photoshop and Vue are genuine blush.gif) So this brings me to my next question - where do you guys stand on artists using torrents? Are you opposed to it and feel if one is making at least some money off their art, that they should at least pay for the tools the used to make that money? Do you think it's fine since the big companies make enough millions a year and that an artists potential shouldn't be limited by what they can afford? Is it to you - a victimless and forgivable crime, like taking five dollars from the Queen's wallet or a handful of grapes from the grocery store Untitled-2.png

I thought it would be an interesting point of discussion. In a way it's a bit sad how some artists will never reach their full creative potential because they can't afford the best supplies, I only got Photoshop since someone I know had the official box-set and installed/registered it on my laptop for me. If it weren't for them, I'd still be using 11 year old Paint Shop Pro 6 probably.




Why is delivering things by car called "shipment", while delivering things by ship is called "cargo"?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
   Smiling Demon
post Nov 27 2010, 11:49 AM
Post #2



Group Icon


Co-Founder / Community Development
Group: Lum Administration
Posts: 9,056
Joined: 16-April 08
From: Edinburgh
Member No.: 6


I'm guilty of the software one, got a legal copy of PS now (bought a student one which makes the price reasonable), I do feel that if you are making money off it you should get a legal copy, but they are just so outrageously expensive that its almost impossible to afford any of the software until you have made money from it.... sad.gif




www.alastairtemple.co.uk

QUOTE
Chaz says:
vera got into a relationship with v4. He's hitting her.
My goat left me.
SD isn't scottish anymore but dutch.
Tobi said **** you against jeff, now is jeff angry.
Cees is just being cees.
Goldenx isn't in lum





Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
   priteeboy
post Nov 27 2010, 01:41 PM
Post #3



Group Icon


ETPcrew
Group: ś Senior Artist
Posts: 712
Joined: 21-October 08
From: Sydney, Australia
Member No.: 599


Lol, those are my sentiments too. If this guy really insists I should get Vue 9, I think I'll jut fork out the cash for it. I do have enough now - but I'm not making regular-enough money off my art to make the purchase worthwhile. I think in the years I've been doing digital art, I've probably only recently made up for the cost of programs/upgrades/tablet etc via commissions. So maybe if I make a few hundred more I'll consider buying it, I do "feel" much better with the real one, but I don't bother looking down on those with cracked versions, especially if they're just hobbyists supersmile.gif




Why is delivering things by car called "shipment", while delivering things by ship is called "cargo"?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
   Thor
post Nov 27 2010, 03:29 PM
Post #4



Group Icon


Inspiring Member
Group: * Former Artist
Posts: 161
Joined: 18-April 09
Member No.: 839


Im pretty sure anyone that made tags / siggies has used a artwork produced by someone else in their art, as for me i usually do vector / 3d so referrance maybe not much else, and im lucky enough that i got photoshop from work, along with all Autodesk programs and vray + fumex plugin from my uncles work, other than that i dont see the harm in torrenting stuff on a moderate level it's very common these days, big companys will always manage and most trail softwares dont offer the full abilities within the program (most people who torrent it is doing it on a hobbybased level also, when doing it professionaly most people get supplied with these softwares), i know allot of people that torrented stuff like CDS, Movies , Softwares and other stuff then ended up buying it when they were happy with the product also i've tried both vue 7 and 9 i got vue 8 xstream installed on my computer as it came with 3ds max's architecture package i can say that the diffrence is quite huge on the ammount of detail you can put in from 7 to 9 atleast 8 to 9 it's not too much but it's still some
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
   Somni
post Nov 27 2010, 08:18 PM
Post #5



Group Icon


Robotic Being
Group: ś Senior Artist
Posts: 2,618
Joined: 23-April 08
From: Florida, USA
Member No.: 91


I've always been very iffy abut using other people's work and even photographs since I started doing digital; it's been drilled into me by my art instructors in high school and I think it's pretty much common sense that art and photography has copyright laws. However, I first began digital art doing a couple of graphic design pieces(which suck) and I did use photos of birds and branches and manipulated them. And then I got into space art in which I would use textures and satellite images, but those are so manipulated that it's fine.

As for torrenting, last year my roommate introduced me to torrenting, and at first I thought, WOW this is awesome! I downloaded loads of music, movies, gnomon vids, pc games, software. But I knew deep inside it was stealing. I tried sugarcoating it, watched that documentary on PirateBay about torrenting and how information and entertainment will inevitably become free, but it's stealing. For one, we are not the rightful owners of the downloaded product; we did not create it. Two, it takes loads of money, teams of people who work really hard, and sacrifice to create the product. Imagine your artwork being downloaded millions of times for whatever uses people can make-honestly, it diminishes the value of your work.

Now, companies do make alot of money regardless. The majority of people prefer to buy products.

I know that if my dad's friend had not torrented and given him copies of photoshop many years ago, I would not be where I am now. It does not, however make excuse for the act of stealing though. Even my dad and I are responsible for accepting copies of stolen product. I know stolen products have fed my potential years ago, but in retrospect it was an accepted sin. What I mean by that is not an acceptable sin, but a sin I chose to accept and be responsible for. Earlier this summer, I realized I've been stealing and I've stopped torrenting. I still use and have all my stolen products, but I will try not to steal anything else. Again, I'm responsible for what I stole.

It's not a victimless or forgivable crime; after all, you taking and stripping the value and hard work of hundreds of people, who need to be paid to put food on the table. It's not as if all those hundreds of people are making as much money as the company they work for do. One would not be taking 5 dollars from the Queen, but rather 5 dollars from all her servants.




Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
   priteeboy
post Nov 28 2010, 01:03 AM
Post #6



Group Icon


ETPcrew
Group: ś Senior Artist
Posts: 712
Joined: 21-October 08
From: Sydney, Australia
Member No.: 599


Interesting responses, kinda what I expected tongue.gif

Thor: Lol, it's safe to say tag and signature-banner makers are at the top of the using-found-images chain. I see those on dA quite a lot. I think people just do them to try and get pageviews since the only cool work they can make is by manipulating found images (often game characters or celebrities)
Vue has a trial version these days (where was it when I first wanted it back in Vue 6 angry.gif) Good thing I loved it since I paid for it outright before trying. Money well spent biggrin.gif But yeah, the trial version is very limited. You can't make your own plants, clouds, functions/fractals for materials etc. Your'e pretty much limited to what the program provides you with...not very artistic if you create a whole scene with presets. I would prefer to buy the real thing, but I understand those who want to do a "try before you buy" via torrents...even if that try is a few years lol.

Somni: I'm sure we all wouldn't use found images now, but like you said - there was those "starting days" where we just used Googled images for digital art. Good thing none of us produced anything sell-able during those days.
I was late to find out what torrenting was too. A classmate in my Digital Media course told me about it I think in 2007. Back then I tried torrenting the currently new Vue 6 at the time. Couldn't figure out how to make it work, so I just bought the proper one laugh.gif I downloaded some music too. But my brother already had most of the music I liked on CD's, so I didn't go crazy there. I wouldn't mind some Gnomon DVD's though. But they're kinda costly sad.gif

Like you, I'm a "used to do it, kept what I stole, but no more" kind of guy. Some might say "If you truly have turned around then you should delete the stolen ones" But my conscience is nagging me THAT much lol. Only C4D is "stolen" in regards to software I have, and I use that very little so it's still not worth me buying anyway. And I have maybe a dozen downloaded songs too. I buy new songs the proper way via iTunes now and have for a couple of years now. But I'm not deleting the downloaded ones either tongue.gif




Why is delivering things by car called "shipment", while delivering things by ship is called "cargo"?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
   encoretheangel
post Nov 28 2010, 01:55 AM
Post #7



Group Icon


Luminarium Addict
Group: * Former Artist
Posts: 898
Joined: 9-April 09
From: Wherever
Member No.: 833


this kinda reminds me of my earlier age in digital art. I never made sigantures or stuff but I started my first digital art in large art field. I used to be in vector, so at that time I used google to find some cool things and then traced them in coreldraw. Combined them and made an artwork, that was fun. I made a blog (I didn't know about deviantart atm) so I posted all of my digital work there. One time I got something really strange and made me stop for a while, that was my friend's crit. He said "**** you *****, what kind of vector did you make!? You violated the copyright by tracing everything in google! You don't deserve to be an artist!" Because of that I learnt everything and anything about coyright and just used legal stock photos from legal stock websites. And then I became a next level, I tried to make my own elements by making them by pentool not tracing anymore. I made an abstract robot inspired by Mac56 for almost 4 months and then I strated to love and make an abstract artwork and abstract is still my field until now tongue.gif During that time, I had made deviantart and again became a deviantart noob tongue.gif tongue.gif

Now I'm really sensitive about copyright and don't bother to blame art theft. One day, I got one of my work got ripped and that I asked him to apologize to me correctly but he never did it since then. I knew being ripped is not FUN!! You want to make him suffering for endless, yeah that's why I'm sensitive about copyright now.... Thanks to my bitchy friend for making me realize about copyright and now I always crit him and said "your work deserves to be in public trash" haha, HARSH FTW!!! laugh.gif




Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
   priteeboy
post Nov 28 2010, 07:44 AM
Post #8



Group Icon


ETPcrew
Group: ś Senior Artist
Posts: 712
Joined: 21-October 08
From: Sydney, Australia
Member No.: 599


Lol, a ton of vector art on dA is traced. I won't forget the drama that surrounded a user who vectored anime screenshots and passed them off as genuine fan-art...she was on dA for a few years and reached over a million pageviews (yeah, for traced anime screenshots!) before her eventual banning...Goes to show that dA can go soft on banning "popular artists" if it took that long. Many other vectors I see are traced from celebrities and stuff too. I admit good vector art looks cool, but it's gotta be done by honourable means.
Speaking of tracing, I gotta admit my old fan-art was too. Whenever I tried drawing one from scratch it just came out so off-model. I kept some of them in my dA gallery even after my own epiphany, but since it's fan-art, it doesn't matter as much since you can't legally sell that anyway so mine are just going to earn me a couple of extra views at the most laugh.gif So I'd say they're still one step above people who directly use game screenshots/renders in art, since I totally re-did the shading, lighting scheme from scratch, but still not as genuine as drawn-from scratch art altogether. I kinda hate seeing them now, But others still liked e'm and they help fill that category of my gallery just a bit more, so meh - might as well leave them. At least now and for a long time I have been doing it the proper way, we all learn wub.gif




Why is delivering things by car called "shipment", while delivering things by ship is called "cargo"?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
   foxd3sign
post Dec 7 2010, 10:01 PM
Post #9



Group Icon


Member
Group: Members +15 posts
Posts: 46
Joined: 7-December 10
From: Germany
Member No.: 2,406


two weeks ago I used a brush for an Artwork I made.
one hour later an Artist wrote a comment really angry and offensive.
what I didn't know some one made the brush from his Artwork...
The Artist is Pissed, I was pissed and the thief does not write back.

the best part of this story is that I have used the sun (the brush was made off) an Inspiration for mine




Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
   priteeboy
post Dec 8 2010, 12:52 AM
Post #10



Group Icon


ETPcrew
Group: ś Senior Artist
Posts: 712
Joined: 21-October 08
From: Sydney, Australia
Member No.: 599


Oh yeah - I've heard of that happening before - people making brushes out of images they found and giving them out as stock. I' think I've seen it done with pictures of video game characters before laugh.gif Or just as bad - when you make stock yourself and someone turns it into a different kind of stock, I would hate that just as much (hence why I clearly stated my gas giant stock pack must not be used in any renders, brushes, picture tubes etc that are intended to be given out as stock from that artist using them tongue.gif) Though there will always be some that won't listen sad.gif




Why is delivering things by car called "shipment", while delivering things by ship is called "cargo"?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Lo-Fi Version